Vista 32 support

[Polecat]

Facts are facts. Vista runs games better at launch then XP did. I NEVER said anyone should use Vista at this time to replace XP for gaming though this will be inevitable at some point in the not so distant future. It is drivers and ONLY drivers at this time that is the problem for gaming. And it is incorrect that Vista is less secure then XP. It is more secure. Time does NOT make an OS more secure. It has quite the exact opposite effect. Why the hell do you think that there are new security updates for XP every month? There are new vulnerabilities exploited all the time and they target the most widely used OS's because it is a target rich environment. And you will have content protection like it or not. In fact you probably already do. If you use XP you will have it as well. I will check Nero for you to just for the pleasure of pointing out how wrong you are as you seem to be on a real hot streak. My SF protected games are working fine under Vista etc.

3D Flyer yours and Rattlers last posts are quite ill informed. Your arguments about ME are ludicrous and uninformed as well as ME was barely ANY different then 98 in any wayl. You guys are apparently experts at something you have absolutely no experience with at all. I spent my night last night installing game after game under Vista and all of them run pretty good. BF2142, Flaming Cliffs, Silent Hunter 3, Flight SimX, Steel Beasts Pro, Star trek Legacy, Elder Scrolls etc. The list goes on and on. They have some ISSUES due to BETA drivers but they run pretty good overall and better with each new driver release. That is all I am trying to say.

I am a simmer as well Rattler. I have alot of money invested in my modded Cougars and all quite high end gear so this is something I understand quite well. I am seeing that most of my gear works fine under Vista as well. Cougar, TIR, Ivibe, Touchbuddy etc, all work which is a really good start this close after Vistas launch.

I do not want you to buy Vista. I could really care less if you do or not. I just think you are grossly exaggerating and spreading unnecessary fear, and I have learned to bristle at the thought of such uninformed drivel.

Edit: Nero: Already done, you are of course wrong about Nero as well.
Fully Vista certified.
http://www.nero.com/nero7/enu/index.html

Love your source too, the enquirer. LOL why not just ask Fox news?
Fair and balanced?

Out

[Rattler]

Thank you 3Dflyer. I am glad there are a few of us that can still use the mind God gave use to make rational decisions. Like I said I have my systems built. The advise those people give is just as you stated. Let the OS be a year or so old before going to it, if it is still around. Most of the problems and lack of support should be well taken care of by then. If not, that should tell you something. It is not being accepted by the masses. I love it when some one says I have no problems but my cockpit disappears and I can see through my plane, etc.. Yup no problems. Yes it may very well be graphics drivers but then we go back to support. That is why as you put it you wait 1 or more years before you take the leap. MS makes us beta testers all to often, with unfinised addons like IE7 and so on. Never did get the security right for Outlook express, if you use the security feature you get no mail of any kind. To be honest I haven't check it out recently as I use IE6 and it works very nicely and I have 3rd party security that is very effective. Vista even admits that you should have another firewall as theirs still is not very good. From what I have seen none of their security is very good. That is why we have 3rd party software. Yes I did mention ME and for good reason and you understand so I will leave it at that. Lets just say it is like looking in a mirror. Keep up your posts as they are far from wrong. Where there is smoke there is fire and we got a raging fire going at the PRESENT time.Lets see how long it takes to put it out, if ever. Cheers.

[Polecat]

Lets see, who should we listen to the guys who are not testing the games on Vista across multiple platforms or.....?

I thought some gamers here might find this truthful up to the minute Vista info helpful so if you guys do not mind I will continue to post about my real successes with the OS over your fantasized problems with it. I build and maintain systems daily. I build more, see more, fix more, hardware/software then the both of you put together will likely ever see. This is called experience guys. I have done the installs, updated the drivers, used the peripherals, run the games, and apps etc. What have you done? Do you not think these experiences might help others get there stuff running under Vista? Or do you think it is just better to bash it instead? For instance the trasparant cockpit graphics in FC (Video driver issue) there is a work around for this.

It is clearly not me who is not using the brains God gave him.

Why did I bother getting educated, certified, starting a succesful business and building a strong customer base? I could have just asked you both what to do right? Now it is clear to me and I will be sure to tell everyone I was wrong guys. Because you have made such valid arguments.
Gonna go install some more games that don't work right now.

Over and Out

[Rattler]

Lets see, who should we listen to the guys who are not testing the games on Vista across multiple platforms or.....?

I thought some might find this info helpful so if you guys do not mind I will continue to post about my real successes with the OS over your fantasized problems with it.

Over and Out

How can you say fantasized when so many people have real Vista issues. I have already said that Vista will not recognize a 6month old webcam.True!! This is not a fantasy. FC will not work with Starforce for a lot of people. There is a work around that someone in the sim community found and works but not for ALL.TRUE. Not fantasy. Nero 7, what of Nero 6? I would be pleased if you pointed me in the right direction for that update no bull, I would really like the update if there is one, I can't find it yet, still looking. You don't get what I am saying. Yes the system you have may run Vista and some games well. My point is other system will not support Vista without upgrades and costly ones too. Yes that is true of all new OS's no argument there. For gamers it is not ready.Fact. Pcworld, Cnet etc. reviews. Plus other very reputable reviews. What I am trying to get across is, for a lot of people this is not the time to jump to Vista unless you have the money for upgrades. Yes as I said some people are ready but why do Computer Tech's always tell you to wait at least one year?Fact. You can not honestly say at this point in time that there are NO issues with Vista. Can you say that? What some of us are trying to say to the average consumer is wait a while, not saying don't buy it. It is just prudent to wait on a new OS whoever puts it out to wait for a while till issues are resolved and no doubt they will be. Vista is Complex for an OS consumer product, we are seeing that.True. Can you understand what I am trying to say to you? I am not trying to shoot down Vista. Lets make damn good and sure it is not an ME, before hard earned money is spent. For those that can afford it and don't care, full your boots, your decision , your money. Not trying to create a flaming war, just trying to advise people through all our past experiences with new OS's of any brand, the prudent thing is to wait. Surely you can agree on that point. Yes if you want it go get it. I like others will take the prudent path and wait awhile to see how Vista preforms. It may very well be the best OS on the market but time will give us the most accurate view if it is or is not. Cheers.

[Polecat]

Thank you 3Dflyer. I am glad there are a few of us that can still use the mind God gave use to make rational decisions. Like I said I have my systems built. The advise those people give is just as you stated. Let the OS be a year or so old before going to it, if it is still around. Most of the problems and lack of support should be well taken care of by then. If not, that should tell you something. It is not being accepted by the masses. I love it when some one says I have no problems but my cockpit disappears and I can see through my plane, etc.. Yup no problems. Yes it may very well be graphics drivers but then we go back to support. That is why as you put it you wait 1 or more years before you take the leap. MS makes us beta testers all to often, with unfinised addons like IE7 and so on. Never did get the security right for Outlook express, if you use the security feature you get no mail of any kind. To be honest I haven't check it out recently as I use IE6 and it works very nicely and I have 3rd party security that is very effective. Vista even admits that you should have another firewall as theirs still is not very good. From what I have seen none of their security is very good. That is why we have 3rd party software. Yes I did mention ME and for good reason and you understand so I will leave it at that. Lets just say it is like looking in a mirror. Keep up your posts as they are far from wrong. Where there is smoke there is fire and we got a raging fire going at the PRESENT time.Lets see how long it takes to put it out, if ever. Cheers.

Rattler maybe you do not understand this either: XP had worse driver support and game support at launch then 98 did. Why are you using XP now then? Vista is barely out. You are plainly bashing it for the sake of it.

Out

[Polecat]

Lets see, who should we listen to the guys who are not testing the games on Vista across multiple platforms or.....?

I thought some might find this info helpful so if you guys do not mind I will continue to post about my real successes with the OS over your fantasized problems with it.

Over and Out

How can you say fantasized when so many people have real Vista issues. I have already said that Vista will not recognize a 6month old webcam.True!! This is not a fantasy. FC will not work with Starforce for a lot of people. There is a work around that someone in the sim community found and works but not for ALL.TRUE. Not fantasy. Nero 7, what of Nero 6? I would be pleased if you pointed me in the right direction for that update no bull, I would really like the update if there is one, I can't find it yet, still looking. You don't get what I am saying. Yes the system you have may run Vista and some games well. My point is other system will not support Vista without upgrades and costly ones too. Yes that is true of all new OS's no argument there. For gamers it is not ready.Fact. Pcworld, Cnet etc. reviews. Plus other very reputable reviews. What I am trying to get across is, for a lot of people this is not the time to jump to Vista unless you have the money for upgrades. Yes as I said some people are ready but why do Computer Tech's always tell you to wait at least one year?Fact. You can not honestly say at this point in time that there are NO issues with Vista. Can you say that? What some of us are trying to say to the average consumer is wait a while, not saying don't buy it. It is just prudent to wait on a new OS whoever puts it out to wait for a while till issues are resolved and no doubt they will be. Vista is Complex for an OS consumer product, we are seeing that.True. Can you understand what I am trying to say to you? I am not trying to shoot down Vista. Lets make damn good and sure it is not an ME, before hard earned money is spent. For those that can afford it and don't care, full your boots, your decision , your money. Not trying to create a flaming war, just trying to advise people through all our past experiences with new OS's of any brand, the prudent thing is to wait. Surely you can agree on that point. Yes if you want it go get it. I like others will take the prudent path and wait awhile to see how Vista preforms. It may very well be the best OS on the market but time will give us the most accurate view if it is or is not. Cheers.

Ok Rattler I have an idea for you then. Do not buy Vista yet. It is YOU having the fantasized issues not others bud. I never said ther are no issues. There are ALWAYS issues. Unfortunately not everybody is smart enought to work around the ones that can be worked around either now are they? They may some times swear, give it up, and call the OS crap right? Particularly if they are not qualified to begin with to trouble shoot any issue they may be having.

You are still way off from reality buddy sorry.

Out

[Rattler]

Thank you 3Dflyer. I am glad there are a few of us that can still use the mind God gave use to make rational decisions. Like I said I have my systems built. The advise those people give is just as you stated. Let the OS be a year or so old before going to it, if it is still around. Most of the problems and lack of support should be well taken care of by then. If not, that should tell you something. It is not being accepted by the masses. I love it when some one says I have no problems but my cockpit disappears and I can see through my plane, etc.. Yup no problems. Yes it may very well be graphics drivers but then we go back to support. That is why as you put it you wait 1 or more years before you take the leap. MS makes us beta testers all to often, with unfinised addons like IE7 and so on. Never did get the security right for Outlook express, if you use the security feature you get no mail of any kind. To be honest I haven't check it out recently as I use IE6 and it works very nicely and I have 3rd party security that is very effective. Vista even admits that you should have another firewall as theirs still is not very good. From what I have seen none of their security is very good. That is why we have 3rd party software. Yes I did mention ME and for good reason and you understand so I will leave it at that. Lets just say it is like looking in a mirror. Keep up your posts as they are far from wrong. Where there is smoke there is fire and we got a raging fire going at the PRESENT time.Lets see how long it takes to put it out, if ever. Cheers.

Rattler maybe you do not understand this either: XP had worse driver support and game support at launch then 98 did. Why are you using XP now then? Vista is barely out. You are plainly bashing it for the sake of it.

Out

AS I am trying to point out it was almost 2 year before I went to XP. I totally agree with you but I guess you don't see what I am trying to say and maybe I am saying it poorly. The point is wait. Let the issues resolve if they can and I am sure if they can they will. That is the time to invest your money. Can you see what I am saying. There are always issues with new OS systems by any brand. I am saying the prudent thing to due is wait a while before you invest so you know what you are going to get and be prepared for it.For those that want it for their own reasons by all means go ahead, just don't complain. We know by experience that there will be issues either small or large. Am I making my point clear to you? I hope so as I am not trying to argue with you. You should agree that Vista is probably one of the most complex OS's to come to the market and that is not a bad thing but as a new system it also brings issues. Yes XP probably looked complex but it is nothing compared to the performance Vista has or should have. Time my friend, all I am saying is give Vista time and give the supporters of Vista time, so it becames what we all want it to be. I sure hope you can understand this. Cheers

[3DFlyer]

Boy, I tell 'ya. Thgis Polecat charachter is something else. He's the perfect example of a MS fanboi...convinced that just becasue he owns it it's the best and works for everybody and he can give you every reason why.

OK Polecat, since you're doing so much exhaustive testing would you mind telling us which review site your testing for? What NDA are you under? You must be under some kind of NDA becasue you're spouting things off on here that are in direct contrast with what the rest of the computing world is saying. Are you legally bound from telling about these issues, or are you just choosing to ignore them? Or is it that you just have rocks in your ears.

If you seriously do work in the IT industry I start to wonder how you got that position. You post nothing that makes any sense, and the majority of your posts are nothing more than slams. You can't make your point with intelligence, so you resort to attack and those little (not so hidden) "hidden shots".

Now, one last thought...
Go back to Billie and tell him you've totally convinced two others not to buy his latest OS for at least another year otay? We will be watching.

Aw, and please stop the maddness.

[Rattler]

:lol: Boy, I tell 'ya. Thgis Polecat charachter is something else. He's the perfect example of a MS fanboi...convinced that just becasue he owns it it's the best and works for everybody and he can give you every reason why.

OK Polecat, since you're doing so much exhaustive testing would you mind telling us which review site your testing for? What NDA are you under? You must be under some kind of NDA becasue you're spouting things off on here that are in direct contrast with what the rest of the computing world is saying. Are you legally bound from telling about these issues, or are you just choosing to ignore them? Or is it that you just have rocks in your ears.

If you seriously do work in the IT industry I start to wonder how you got that position. You post nothing that makes any sense, and the majority of your posts are nothing more than slams. You can't make your point with intelligence, so you resort to attack and those little (not so hidden) "hidden shots".

Now, one last thought...
Go back to Billie and tell him you've totally convinced two others not to buy his latest OS for at least another year otay? We will be watching.

Aw, and please stop the maddness.

I would hate to tell him what I did for 33 years. Lets just say I am no stranger to PC's, OS's and communications and ATC systems(real world). I think I will just let it hang. Have a good day.

[3DFlyer]

Holy Cow, I'm talking with an idividual that works on the biggest network in the world? The Air traffic Control System. A system that postively has to work 24/7 365 and is definitely mission critical. I don't think it gets much more reliable or bigger than that.

If they go Vista be sure and warn me...I'll go VFR when I go up with my buddies. LOL Of course in that type of environment these systems must be proven first. They don't Beta test them on the fly literally and figuratively speaking. Before 9/11 I took a tour of the local Tower facility at GSO when I was taking lessons for my Private Licence. That setup runs like the tightest smoothest system around. Clearance-->GND-->Tower-->Departure-->Center-->Approach-->Tower-->GND that whole loop runs like clockwork.

I hear the new additions they are adding will bring the system capability up, and make it much more efficient yet still reliable. Sounds like a model to follow eh?

[MaXMhZ]

OK guys.
You've presented your views; can we return this forum to Shift_E now please instead of making it another it does - it does not umpty pages thread?
TIA
S! MaX

[Rattler]

Yes and before long we will have complete radar and voice comm all the way across the Atlantic. We have been in test mode for 7 years now. We have been able to watch aircraft cross the ocean from coast out to coast in. Comm. sat. been up for a while and more being added to make sure the system is fail proof. After that it is up to the International bodies for civ. aviation to work out seperation standards and away we go. Our computer systems are built by us for the operational side. We have subcontractors for touch displays and other modules but the computer is all ours. In the simulator where we teach we use Silicon Graphics as the main sim. computers running lunex. Super fast,multitasking,no pauses or stutters. Smooth as silk. We do use some PC's in the sim. for programs we design to simulate a/c responses to ATC direction and visa versa. We were a long time jumping to windows xp enviroment. We have a very large Technical support system and development teams and it takes years to develop systems for ATC. As you say they have to be 100% 24/7. In operations we have a full standby system if something should go wrong and it mirrors what is going on so it is a transition that is seamless to the controllers. Also 4 diesel back up units that can kickin if a power failure occurs and that is also seamless to the computers. They don't even know there was a lose of power. I must say desktop PC's are miniture compared to these systems, Hell weve been past what you see in a windows system for about 15 years. What Vista does is a joke to this system. Where I am , weve had ATC computers for 40 years. The only place in Canada that was fully computerized before the rest of Canada. Glad you enjoyed your Tour. You should see our 360 degree VFR tower sim. in Cornwall Ont. It would blow you mind. I've had my hands on the BEST in simulation for 33 years. What you see in Flight sims. on the market today is like looking at the dark ages. We simulate everything , radar,comm systems, aircraft ground vehicals etc. , everything to do with a fully operational ATC unit. Step from the Simulator to the Operations floor is no shock, Identical in every way, easy transition for the trainee. We spend over $250,000 on each trainee so we make sure they have ever oppertunity to pass the training. It takes 2 years of dedicated work by a trainee to get to check out. We can even program aircraft accidents to see where things went wrong, man the average person has no idea what ATC simulation can do. Quality of what you see is like High Definition, no pixel problems , just like looking out the window. We have now been 12 years developing the ATC system of the future. AS modules are done and pass testing , they are installed but only after the controllers have used the system modules in the simulator. Gives you a little look at what is out there. Some stuff if you got the cash you can get off the shelf, to some extent. If you pass by Newfoundland, be glad to show you. I am retired but I can still give you a tour if I know when. Security you know. Very high as you can imagine. Just wish you could see what I have and you would laugh at any PC system. However I enjoy the PC and the flight sims(combat). It gives me a reality check after using the best the world has to offer. I always wish the PC games made by some of the Developers out there could really see what can be done. Cost to high I am afraid but they could do better with what we have in the PC world but again the game would be expensive but I think it would be bought. I would. Hee Hee. Have a good day and someday why don't you see if you can get to see a U.S. ATC simulator, they are extremely good as well. I would say on par from my experience. I have seen video of their system. Very Very cool. Cheers.

[Polecat]

Interesting read:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=429#

Out

[3DFlyer]

Oops, I was gonna reply that the URL's beneath the one-sided article that polecat posted was even more interesting, but didn't see that the Admin has basically said to end this discussion. I guess Polecat didn't see it either.

Sorry about that. I removed the post.

[MaXMhZ]

I don't have any problem with anyone wanting to continue to discuss this - but a multipage yes it does <--> no it doesn't in a forum that's realy intended for VAC would not be very polite to Shift_E and other users visiting this forum for VAC support IMHO. Essentialy Shift_E desides in this forum though - not me. I'm only here to help if I can. New testing rounds of hardware/software will start in the near future to update the Tech section. I'm pretty sure that will give a good insight into performance of Vista as well. Check this post on M4T